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Hello to all, glad to have found this forum, and hope to learn from the veteran Writers here.

 

I am recently published, my first book, which is a doctrinal study concerning Regeneration (New Birth). Some of the views presented in the book are controversial, as they stand in contradiction to a number of popular views that are held by many Christians. As a Christian Doctrinal Debate and Discussion enthusiast I have for years challenged my own doctrine among other Christians, and have only been more convinced that the simple truths presented in the book help us to better understand the Bible as a whole.

 

The title of the book is The Magnitude of the Cross: Understanding the New Birth. As I am not yet familiar with this forum, I will wait to post a link, though it is easily enough found, and for anyone interested in reading an excerpt you can find that on BookDaily.

 

One of the things I hope to learn, in this new journey as a writer, is the self-publishing process. I used a publishing company for this first project, but was informed by another self-publisher that everything they (the publishing company) did I could do myself, which would at least remove the waiting process involved with using them, which is probably my own complaint (in using them). I plan on doing a series, the next installment being The Magnitude of the Cross: Understanding Eternal Security. The thought at this point is to publish this through Kindle Direct Publishing, where I would be handling everything, so I guess the first question I would pose to those here is what they think of this. Right now I am awaiting some corrections to the book file, so have temporarily suspended efforts of promotions, though the E-Book file is okay (it's the paperback version being modified), but this should be resolved within the week. The point being that I have some time to learn about the process, and will work on the second book while I promote the first, which is without question a labor of love, and probably always going to be my favorite project.

 

So again, glad to have found this forum, and hopefully receive encouragement from my brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

Lastly, I will ask one of the questions that The Magnitude of the Cross: Understanding the New Birth addresses: were men born again prior to Pentecost? Has anyone here ever given this question consideration? Most of the people asked this question have not. If you have never given it thought, the answer may very well surprise you, as it does most.

 

 

God bless.

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Welcome Darrell, and congrats on your first publication. I haven't even reached the point of publication, so can't help you on any of those points, but there are many other wonderful people and writers here who will be willing to offer advice. 

 

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Welcome to our writing family, Darrell. Glad you joined us.

 

I checked your inside look at Amazon and didn't see a copyright page. Do you have one? I was also wondering if you were changing the way you quoted Scripture. I noticed a separate line for each verse and with the verse number. Actually, the numbers should be removed and the verse should be in one block. Also, I noticed a couple of scriptures with no Bible reference/version. Are you using all KJV? This is why I asked about your copyright page. The copyright notice, even though it is free to use, must be listed at the beginning of your book. And if you plan to see your book in England, you must get permission. It is not copyright free there. If you are using other versions, all the copyright notices should be listed.

 

You'll find plenty of help, support, and encouragement around here, so roam around and make yourself at home. Blessings on your writing! :D

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10 minutes ago, lynnmosher said:

Welcome to our writing family, Darrell. Glad you joined us.

 

I checked your inside look at Amazon and didn't see a copyright page. Do you have one? I was also wondering if you were changing the way you quoted Scripture. I noticed a separate line for each verse and with the verse number. Actually, the numbers should be removed and the verse should be in one block. Also, I noticed a couple of scriptures with no Bible reference/version. Are you using all KJV? This is why I asked about your copyright page. The copyright notice, even though it is free to use, must be listed at the beginning of your book. And if you plan to see your book in England, you must get permission. It is not copyright free there. If you are using other versions, all the copyright notices should be listed.

 

You'll find plenty of help, support, and encouragement around here, so roam around and make yourself at home. Blessings on your writing! :D

 

The copyright is listed on the back of the first page (following title).

 

As far as changing the way I quote Scripture, no, I have no plans to do that. As far as the numbers go, because this is a doctrinal study, the numbers are useful as points are drawn within a quote.

 

As far as using the King James, I do so because it is and excellent translation (superior to most in my view, because it does a better job of being thorough in the translation of the texts), and the only translation that is generally accepted by all. I did not want to lose King James Only readers due to their bias against modern translations.

 

Lastly, the King James is in the Public Domain.

 

I mention these issues in the foreword of the book.

 

So I am not completely sure what you mean by "And if you plan to see your book in England, you must get permission. It is not copyright free there."

 

Thanks for the welcome, lynnmosher, and just so you know I am enjoying the forum already! One question I have is it okay to give a link to BookDaily where an excerpt can be read? One of the most important things for me is to have feedback on the book from Christian Authors. I have for years received feedback from Christians, but not writers.

 

God bless.

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Oh, yes! I'm sorry. I meant to tell you about your link. You are welcome to post it in Publicationa& Plugs (it's under Community/Forums/scroll all the way down). 

 

Ah! I guess the page must not be showing up.

 

Yes, KJV is in public domain but it still requires a copyright .notice. It is not public domain/copyright free in England. They still hold the copyright on it. So you must seek permission to use it if you sell your book there. LOL Sorry. I meant SELL. :D

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18 minutes ago, lynnmosher said:

Oh, yes! I'm sorry. I meant to tell you about your link. You are welcome to post it in Publicationa& Plugs (it's under Community/Forums/scroll all the way down). 

 

Ah! I guess the page must not be showing up.

 

Yes, KJV is in public domain but it still requires a copyright .notice. It is not public domain/copyright free in England. They still hold the copyright on it. So you must seek permission to use it if you sell your book there. LOL Sorry. I meant SELL. :D

 

I am glad you have brought this to my attention. I guess I can understand merry ole England having a bit of a stricter position, lol.

 

I have sent the publisher a note, and hopefully they will respond soon. I am actually having revisions to the paperback's file made now, so it should be a fairly simple thing to get that in there.

 

I would ask if people shop on Amazon in England and if so, how could they be stopped from buying from Amazon, or Kindle, or any of the other sources for the book?

 

God bless.

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I don't think it's so much that they would be stopped but that you would be fined.

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19 minutes ago, lynnmosher said:

Darrell, you can also post your link in Publishing Credits.

 

Okay thanks, I have posted it in Publishing Credits.

 

Going back to the KJV copyright, would this apply to the E-Book version as well, or do you know?

 

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FIRST OF ALL - WELCOME :D

 

My name is Serena, and I want to extend a proverbial right hand of fellowship to you. I am by no means a veteran writer, or an expert in any field, but I will be happy to address some of your questions and comments from my own point of view to get the party started. 

 

Congratulations on the publication of your first book. I see you decided to go the self-publish route as opposed to the traditional route, to each his or her own. I love to read the various reasons why some lean one direction and some lean to the other. 

 

Quote

Some of the views presented in the book are controversial, 

 

I applaud you for this, but urge you to tread carefully. Controversy is a treacherous sea. As someone who also tends to take controversial stands from time to time, let me say that  you have to be more prepared than others, and be ready to defend your beliefs with strong biblical reasoning. I have seen many who profess to be "controversial" who end up undermined by something so simple as the original language studies.

 

Feedback from other viewpoints is crucial in this endeavor. You have to look at every angle before you present your evidence. You also have to consider the tone of your presentation. If you are perceived as "snobby" or some other unsavory characteristic by your audience, then they will not read your work. 

 

If you are a strong researcher, and you have given your theories considerable prayer and substantial study, then press on and let the blessings flow. 

 

Quote

The thought at this point is to publish this through Kindle Direct Publishing, where I would be handling everything, so I guess the first question I would pose to those here is what they think of this. 

 

Originally I was going to take the self-publishing route myself, but figured out quickly that I was out of my league. My situation may be vastly different than yours though. I am more than willing to work hard, but sometimes working hard is not enough. If you have the financial means, and the publishing connections, self publishing is probably the way to go. However, Harper Collins for example requires an agent since they do not accept unsolicited projects. If you are new to the market, you may not know these things yet. I am new and learning as I go as well. 

 

Quote

I will ask one of the questions that The Magnitude of the Cross: Understanding the New Birth addresses: were men born again prior to Pentecost? 

 

This is a question with a lot of potential. Since you are one who deals in "controversial" doctrinal ideas, I think you and I can have a delightful discussion. As I stated you have to be extra prepared, so we can learn from each other.  

 

So let's break your question down. 

 

According to Google Dictionary born again is defined as : "converted to a personal faith in Christ"

 

Also according to Google Dictionary one definition for Pentecost is: "the Christian festival celebrating the descent of the Holy Spirit on the disciples of Jesus after his Ascension, held on the seventh Sunday after Easter."

 

Jesus was not born as the Christ. He was born with the potential for being the Christ. He did not physically become Christ until His baptism when the Holy Spirit descended on Him, and thus "anointed Him". It was then that God approved Him. That is what Christ and Messiah mean, the anointed one. Prior to this event, people hoped on and waited for the Christ, They did not "covert to personal faith in Him". (THAT DOESN'T MEAN they didn't have salvation options though, which is not the same thing.)

 

Jesus became the Christ at his baptism which kicked off His earthly ministry. "Pentecost" happened after Jesus's ascension. You asked if men could be "born again" prior to Pentecost. The simplest answer is yes, of course. In John chapter 3, (after the baptism, but prior to the ascension) Jesus even told Nicodemus that he would have to be "born again". 

 

I feel like you may be asking a more in depth question though. If that is the case, I would be more than happy to have a discussion with you. Hopefully more will join in and we will have a wonderful time of community fellowship together. 

 

Again, WELCOME new friend!!   :)

 

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3 minutes ago, MS.Serena.Fox said:

If you have the financial means, and the publishing connections, self publishing is probably the way to go.

 

***side note, Serena: you do not have to have a lot of money to pay others for self-publishing. You can do it yourself. End of note***

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11 minutes ago, MS.Serena.Fox said:

FIRST OF ALL - WELCOME :D

 

My name is Serena, and I want to extend a proverbial right hand of fellowship to you. I am by no means a veteran writer, or an expert in any field, but I will be happy to address some of your questions and comments from my own point of view to get the party started. 

 

Congratulations on the publication of your first book. I see you decided to go the self-publish route as opposed to the traditional route, to each his or her own. I love to read the various reasons why some lean one direction and some lean to the other. 

 

Thanks for the welcome! And I see, in your parsing, that we are kindred spirits, lol. I too like to break down discussions for a more detailed response.

 

12 minutes ago, MS.Serena.Fox said:

I applaud you for this, but urge you to tread carefully. Controversy is a treacherous sea. As someone who also tends to take controversial stands from time to time, let me say that  you have to be more prepared than others, and be ready to defend your beliefs with strong biblical reasoning. I have seen many who profess to be "controversial" who end up undermined by something so simple as the original language studies.

 

Feedback from other viewpoints is crucial in this endeavor. You have to look at every angle before you present your evidence. You also have to consider the tone of your presentation. If you are perceived as "snobby" or some other unsavory characteristic by your audience, then they will not read your work. 

 

If you are a strong researcher, and you have given your theories considerable prayer and substantial study, then press on and let the blessings flow. 

 

It has always been said, controversy sells, lol. The key is making sure, when one is controversial, that the controversy has merit.

 

 

12 minutes ago, MS.Serena.Fox said:

Originally I was going to take the self-publishing route myself, but figured out quickly that I was out of my league. My situation may be vastly different than yours though. I am more than willing to work hard, but sometimes working hard is not enough. If you have the financial means, and the publishing connections, self publishing is probably the way to go. However, Harper Collins for example requires an agent since they do not accept unsolicited projects. If you are new to the market, you may not know these things yet. I am new and learning as I go as well. 

 

There is actually a Kindle Direct Publishing forum where you can learn about self publishing, and what I was told there was "everything the publishing company did for you...you can do yourself for free." I think it is simply a matter of creating the manuscript and then processing it through KDP. This is essentially what I did with the publishing company I used, and I am now interested in taking the reigns myself, primarily because waiting on the PC is a little irritating, ll.

 

I will also address your statements concerning the question posed, and want to thank you in advance for your comments.

 

God bless.

 

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18 minutes ago, MS.Serena.Fox said:

This is a question with a lot of potential

 

I view this as possibly one of the most important questions a Christian can ask, and answer.

 

18 minutes ago, MS.Serena.Fox said:

Since you are one who deals in "controversial" doctrinal ideas, I think you and I can have a delightful discussion.

 

Christian Doctrine is my passion in life, and love to discuss the Word of God.

 

18 minutes ago, MS.Serena.Fox said:

As I stated you have to be extra prepared, so we can learn from each other.

 

And there are only three things required to be prepared: 1) study; 2) study; 3) study.

 

;)

 

18 minutes ago, MS.Serena.Fox said:

So let's break your question down. 

 

According to Google Dictionary born again is defined as : "converted to a personal faith in Christ"

 

It is better to define terms used in Scripture with Scripture itself, and the languages they were written in.

 

"Born Again" can be defined itself two ways: born from above, and born again. In John 3 the most likely interpretation is "born from above," because the Lord is stating men must be born of the Spirit, which in John 1 we see John speak of being born of God, which is synonymous with being made children of God. The New Birth is spoken of as being born of God, born of the Spirit, born from above, and born again.

 

 

19 minutes ago, MS.Serena.Fox said:

Also according to Google Dictionary one definition for Pentecost is: "the Christian festival celebrating the descent of the Holy Spirit on the disciples of Jesus after his Ascension, held on the seventh Sunday after Easter."

 

The question has in view the actual Day of Pentecost in Acts 2. And it is the coming of the Promised Spirit at Pentecost which marks in time something that had never taken place before: the eternal indwelling of God.

 

Now what I would suggest to you, and this is where the controversy arises, is that men were not born again prior to Pentecost because regeneration is the direct result of the eternal indwelling of God. Think about this: God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. The implication being that men were not being reconciled prior to the Son of God manifesting in the flesh, dying on the Cross, rising again, returning to Heaven, and...sending the Promised Spirit. Promised by the Father (in the Old Testament, i.e., Ezekiel 36:27) and taught of by Christ (i.e., John 7:38-39, John 14, John 16:7), Acts 1:4-5.

 

 

19 minutes ago, MS.Serena.Fox said:

Jesus was not born as the Christ. He was born with the potential for being the Christ. He did not physically become Christ until His baptism when the Holy Spirit descended on Him, and thus "anointed Him". It was then that God approved Him.

 

When we look at the fact that the Son of God came for the precise purpose of dying on the Cross, and that this was determined prior to the creation of the world, even, we have to consider that there was simply no possibility for either failure or mishap in regards to His death in our stead.

 

In regards to when we might consider Him to have become the Christ, I would view the Incarnation to mark when He became the Christ, because at this time that which was promised occurred, the promised One was now with men.

 

Here is something else that might be controversial: we must distinguish between the Son of God ministering among men as the Christ and the Son of God ministering to men as the Risen Savior. Christ made it clear He was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel, and when He sent the disciples out to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom, they were allowed to go only to the lost sheep of Israel, and forbidden to go to Gentiles or Samaritans (Matthew 10:6; 15:24). The reason is because He ministered under the Law and within the framework of the revelation provided to men at that point. Paul makes it clear that the Mystery of the Gospel was not revealed to men in past Ages, past generations, to the Saints or sons of men (which is all inclusive of everyone), but is now (in Paul's day) revealed by the Spirit to His holy Apostles and Prophets.

 

The primary "approval" we see concerning the Father and the Son is seen in the Resurrection, which was a validation of the Work Christ came to do.

 

 

19 minutes ago, MS.Serena.Fox said:

That is what Christ and Messiah mean, the anointed one. Prior to this event, people hoped on and waited for the Christ,

 

This is true, and we see the kind of Messiah Israel lay in expectation of: a physical descendant of David who would restore Israel to her former glory, and from thence not fail to produce a King on the throne. unknown to men was...the Mystery of the Gospel.

 

Even to the disciples.

 

But that was to be expected, because understanding of the Gospel was not given to them, nor did they have the revelation of the Mystery as we do, nor did they have a completed Canon as we do.

 

The Old Testament is primarily physical in nature, and the importance of making that distinction is critical.

 

 

20 minutes ago, MS.Serena.Fox said:

They did not "covert to personal faith in Him". (THAT DOESN'T MEAN they didn't have salvation options though, which is not the same thing.)

 

There is only one option for salvation, and that by the grace of God. This was true in the Old Testament as well as true today. The distinction we can make, though, is that though the Old Testament Saint was justified by grace through faith and works, they were not eternally redeemed through the Blood (death) of Christ, nor were their sins forgiven on an eternal basis (Hebrews 9:12-15). Hebrews 11 makes it clear they all died in faith...but received not the promises, nor were they made perfect (complete).

 

When men of faith like Noah, Abraham, Job, and David died, the last sacrifice for sin offered up on their behalf was that of an animal. It is popularly taught today that they were "saved on credit," but we simply have no Biblical basis for such a doctrine. Their eternal destinies were secured through their faith, but, it would not be until Christ came and died in their stead, making Atonement on an eternal basis, that they would receive eternal redemption, and be immersed into eternal union with God.

 

 

20 minutes ago, MS.Serena.Fox said:

Jesus became the Christ at his baptism which kicked off His earthly ministry. "Pentecost" happened after Jesus's ascension.

 

Again, I would view Him being Messiah since birth on the basis that the Messiah came to be with men at that time. He is the One promised to come, and He came when He was born into this world in flesh (and I do not exclude His conception, it is just that it was when He was born that He was technically among men).

 

 

21 minutes ago, MS.Serena.Fox said:

You asked if men could be "born again" prior to Pentecost. The simplest answer is yes, of course. In John chapter 3, (after the baptism, but prior to the ascension) Jesus even told Nicodemus that he would have to be "born again". 

 

This is in fact the strongest argument those who take the view men were born again prior to Pentecost have. It is essentially, "The Lord would not have told Nicodemus he must be born again...if it could not happen."

 

But can I remind you He also commanded men to believe on Him, and that was not something they could actually do yet either. And we know they (the eleven disciples) were not believing on Christ as the Risen Savior prior to His Death and Resurrection (see Mark 16:9-14 for an example).

 

Nicodemus should have immediately thought of Ezekiel 36-37 when told men must be born again, and he completely misunderstands the Lord, instead (and not surprisingly) thinking in physical terms (entering the womb a second time). The Lord clarifies that He is speaking of that which God effects, and Nicodemus responds with a question as to how this can take place (and I will present this passage, because it is important in regards to the argument you present):


John 3:9-14

King James Version (KJV)

 

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

 

Men can only be born again through the Work of Christ. Christ came to bestow eternal life, and we can be sure that prior to the eternal indwelling of God which began when the Comforter was sent at Pentecost...no man had received eternal life prior to the Spirit being given.

 

God sent His Son that we might have eternal life...through Him,

 

 

21 minutes ago, MS.Serena.Fox said:

I feel like you may be asking a more in depth question though. If that is the case, I would be more than happy to have a discussion with you. Hopefully more will join in and we will have a wonderful time of community fellowship together.

 

This issue will impact how one understands not only the Bible, but their salvation in Christ. It is a controversial issue because popular modern Theology and the Systems available to men have in some sense created a bottle-neck in regards to Soteriology. What I mean by that is there are only a handful of Systems one is likely to embrace when they are saved, and sadly, most will be taught by their leadership and instead of testing that which is taught they will proceed to proof-text what they are taught with Scripture.

 

It is just my opinion that while most believe we are saved by grace through faith, what we can see in the theologies of many is that they actually believe they are saved by faith through grace, and the distinction is, again, critical.

 

New birth is the result of man being immersed into God in eternal union. He/she is a new creature because they now have the Life that Christ came to give. Eternal Life is not a substance poured into a person, and it is not a positional standing, it is the very life of God in us...because He is in us, and we in Him.

 

If you would, read John 14, and keep in mind that what Christ is teaching them is not taking place while He is teaching them. It is a future day, He teaches, when they will know they that He is in the Father, and in them, and they in Him. What He is teaching about is the eternal indwelling that would begin when the Comforter is sent.

 

 

21 minutes ago, MS.Serena.Fox said:

Again, WELCOME new friend!!   :)

 

 

Thanks! I hope I haven't ruined it with such a long post, lol.

 

I do hope you will give some serious consideration to this issue, regardless of the position you take. I have been debating this issue for years, but am always hoping that someone might be able to present a new argument.

 

But I think that if a few simple truths are examined, it becomes clear men were not born again prior to Pentecost. We can then understand why Peter would rebuke the Lord when He presented the Gospel to them (Matthew 16:20-23), and why he would deny he even knew the Lord when the Lord was taken.

 

It's a great discussion, and one which I think has the potential to change lives, and to help us understand our salvation in Christ, that we might walk in Him in full assurance of faith.

 

God bless.

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2 hours ago, lynnmosher said:

I don't think it's so much that they would be stopped but that you would be fined.

 

My publishing company is tell me that as long as I do not exceed Gratis Use, or, 25% of total text I should be fine. There is a lot of Scripture in the book but nowhere near 25%, lol.

 

I will have to look into this further, though, to make sure. And without question it will be added to the next book regardless.

 

God bless.

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37 minutes ago, Darrell Conner said:

My publishing company is tell me that as long as I do not exceed Gratis Use, or, 25% of total text I should be fine. There is a lot of Scripture in the book but nowhere near 25%, lol.

 

So glad I said something. I'd always heard that you had to ask permission. So I did a little snooping. The rights are under Cambridge University Press. As long as it's 25% or 500 uses (depending on its use), it's okay. But you still need the copyright notice. This is from their site...

 

Rights in The Authorized Version of the Bible (King James Bible) in the United Kingdom are vested in the Crown and administered by the Crown’s patentee, Cambridge University Press. The reproduction by any means of the text of the King James Version is permitted to a maximum of five hundred (500) verses for liturgical and non-commercial educational use, provided that the verses quoted neither amount to a complete book of the Bible nor represent 25 per cent or more of the total text of the work in which they are quoted, subject to the following acknowledgement being included:

 

Scripture quotations from The Authorized (King James) Version. Rights in the Authorized Version in the United Kingdom are vested in the Crown. Reproduced by permission of the Crown’s patentee, Cambridge University Press

 

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33 minutes ago, lynnmosher said:

Scripture quotations from The Authorized (King James) Version. Rights in the Authorized Version in the United Kingdom are vested in the Crown. Reproduced by permission of the Crown’s patentee, Cambridge University Press

 

Lynn, this needs its own thread.  :)

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Yeah, I think you're right. We've discussed this many times before but I will put this in a new thread. Thanks, Alley. :D

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20 minutes ago, lynnmosher said:

We've discussed this many times before

I missed it, and it looks like the other newbies have to.  Again, welcome Darrell.  

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7 hours ago, Darrell Conner said:

. I did not want to lose King James Only readers due to their bias against modern translations.

 

Thanks!

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Hi Darrell, welcome to Christianwriters! It is great to meet you!

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Quote

Thanks! I hope I haven't ruined it with such a long post, lol.

 Of course not ... we are all writers, ;) 

 

First please forgive me for taking so long to get back to you. I have suffered with some medical issues lately. What I thought were passing kidney stones now appears to be damage to one of my back muscles, and I have inadvertently aggravated it. It's possible I have torn it, but I am praying it is only a nasty sprain. I am supposed to be on bed rest right now, but my husband ran to town to get some things, so I snuck in here to the big computer ... LOL

 

I didn't take any meds this morning because I was scheduled to read one of my poems at church, and I didn't want to be groggy. He is a little bit mad at me about that right now.  ^_^

 

You have made some interesting points and arguments. Some I agree with, some were thought provoking, so I will deeply consider those, and some we disagree on. That makes for delicious (loving and friendly) debate though. I too LOVE talking about God and HIS word.  

 

If you will permit me a few more days to heal (hopefully), I will be  more than happy to discuss this in depth. 

 

God Bless, and I'm so happy you have come to join us here. 

 

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19 hours ago, MS.Serena.Fox said:

 Of course not ... we are all writers, ;) 

 

First please forgive me for taking so long to get back to you. I have suffered with some medical issues lately. What I thought were passing kidney stones now appears to be damage to one of my back muscles, and I have inadvertently aggravated it. It's possible I have torn it, but I am praying it is only a nasty sprain. I am supposed to be on bed rest right now, but my husband ran to town to get some things, so I snuck in here to the big computer ... LOL

 

I didn't take any meds this morning because I was scheduled to read one of my poems at church, and I didn't want to be groggy. He is a little bit mad at me about that right now.  ^_^

 

You have made some interesting points and arguments. Some I agree with, some were thought provoking, so I will deeply consider those, and some we disagree on. That makes for delicious (loving and friendly) debate though. I too LOVE talking about God and HIS word.  

 

If you will permit me a few more days to heal (hopefully), I will be  more than happy to discuss this in depth. 

 

God Bless, and I'm so happy you have come to join us here. 

 

 

Take your time, and hope you feel better. Get the rest you need and try not to aggravate wither your back or your husband, lol.

 

There are a number of issues that I would suggest you take a look at in regards to the issue of whether men were born again prior to Pentecost, so I would encourage you to take a look at the excerpt from the book to get a headstart on one of them, which is the issue of the Disciples of Christ (nor any other man) trusting in Christ for eternal salvation prior to Pentecost. The reason for that is the Mystery of the Gospel was not revealed to men prior to the onset of this Age, when the Promised Spirit came and the Lord began to build His Church (which is another issue we must consider as we work through this issue).

 

Think about this: it was not until Christ died, arose, returned to Heaven, and sent the Promised Spirit (the Comforter) that men began to be baptized with the Holy Ghost, which is synonymous with being immersed into God in eternal union (which itself is reconciliation between God and man), and is synonymous with being baptized into Christ. We know that it is through Christ that both Jew and Gentile are made one man in Christ, so we know that it is impossible to see this as taking place in Old Testament Economies. John 14 is a good place to start to see that the Disciples were not in Christ at that time, and it is hard to try to make them regenerate at this time in that condition (unbelieving and not in Christ yet).

 

But I look forward to discussing this with you, as it is one of the most important issues I think any Bible Student can consider.

 

You can read the excerpt here...

 

http://www.bookdaily.com/book/20077397/the-magnitude-of-the-cross

 

Again, hope you feel better!

 

God bless.

 

 

 

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